Curse

Konig Des Todes · Aug 25, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

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Originally Posted by Free Runner

Er...isnt that just a simplified version of what i said? spirits leaving Tyria = spirits leaving the world?

Er... it is. I was saying it's either what I said above, or what you said >.<

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We meet 5 (thats including Shiro) but its never said that they are the only ones. Its more like they are the ones directly involved with Shiros campaign.

Well Envoys only become such as punishment for very great crimes *like shiro's first life's crimes*, so all Envoys are big time criminals, I don't think there are that many of them that can handle the whole world, of course there will be more then 5 Envoys in all, it is possible that they were the "Envoys of Cantha" for all we know.

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I think the spirits just managed to find a way around it. Spirits can harm mortals that have never been in the Realm of Torment in the present day.

I was just saying it's a possibility, they could have figured out how to interact with mortals after killing Odran for all we know.

Aeve Haleheart · Aug 25, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

There are only what, 7, 8, Envoys?

That's an unsupported assumption. Like Free Runner already said, we only meet 5 envoys but we have absolutely no idea of how many envoys actually exist.

On top of that, even if there were only that few envoys, we still have no idea of how they actually do their job. It's highly possible they are able to guide millions of souls to the mists in just a few seconds. We just don't know what their powers and abilities are.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 25, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

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Originally Posted by Aeve Haleheart

That's an unsupported assumption. Like Free Runner already said, we only meet 5 envoys but we have absolutely no idea of how many envoys actually exist.

On top of that, even if there were only that few envoys, we still have no idea of how they actually do their job. It's highly possible they are able to guide millions of souls to the mists in just a few seconds. We just don't know what their powers and abilities are.

....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Well Envoys only become such as punishment for very great crimes *like shiro's first life's crimes*, so all Envoys are big time criminals, I don't think there are that many of them that can handle the whole world, of course there will be more then 5 Envoys in all, it is possible that they were the "Envoys of Cantha" for all we know.

Read a bit more before posting, sometimes there is a response that comments on what you'll say already.

As for their "powers and abilities," that is true, we don't know the extent, all we know is that they can return some people back to life. We don't know at all how powerful they are in terms of how many souls they can guide at once.

Free Runner · Aug 26, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

What we should try and figure out is where would Odran leave the portals. He left them in dangerous places to keep people away - what are the most dangerous places in Tyria?

We know the location of two of them - One in Tyria at the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, a place that requires passage through Augury Rock. The other is on the Battle Ilse and has obviously been secured by the Zaishen.

I personally think the Island up in the Northwest corner is a possible location. Another could be somewere within the Magumma/Tarnished Coast border.We pretty much traversed the entire Ring of Fire Island Chain and didnt find anything there.

The question is did he leave one in Cantha? Cantha is largely absent from the lore regarding Odran,the Mists and the gods. But he obviously went as far as the Battle Ilse so its not a stretch to think he may of left one there. But its hard to figure out the "dangerous" areas of Cantha - since he would of left them there before the Jade Wind.....Cantha has changed alot since that time.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 26, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

You forgot a known one. The Tombs of Drascir has a portal to the HoH.

Personally, for Cantha, the only place I can think of that might have been dangerous at Odran's would be The Deep.

The Desolation is a rather dangerous place as well, so there might be one somewhere around there. But if you count the Crystal Desert as a part of Elona and not Tyria *different people consider them part of either or both continent*, then the one in Ascalon would be Tyria, Tomb of the Primeval Kings would be Elona, there is Battle Isles, and then a missing possibility in Cantha. With that, there would be one in each continent we know of.

It is possible that Odran went to different continents, not different worlds, as well with the portals. It would have been recorded as different worlds because of the vast difference in the cultures, and I doubt every continent has humans in it.

Free Runner · Aug 26, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

You forgot a known one. The Tombs of Drascir has a portal to the HoH.

Ah yes. So thats Three known portals.

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Personally, for Cantha, the only place I can think of that might have been dangerous at Odran's would be The Deep.

But The Deep is an excavation site. It wouldnt of actually been there when Odran was around as it would still of been the Jade Sea.

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It is possible that Odran went to different continents, not different worlds, as well with the portals. It would have been recorded as different worlds because of the vast difference in the cultures, and I doubt every continent has humans in it.

The worlds reffered to in the passage are actually the different stages of Heroes Ascent. When progressing your technically entering different parts of the Mists until you finally go through the portal into the Hall of Heroes (or in gameplays case you win a battle and load into the Hall). To us that would be like stepping from world to world. Its basicly like one big Chain - from Tyria you enter the first portal and come out in The Underworld, head into the next and you come out at Antechamber ect. When Abaddons forces attacked the Hall of Heroes they used this chain to their advantage going backwards through it.

Gmr Leon · Aug 26, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I'm still not certain as to whether or not the Tombs of Drascir can still be considered official lore. We hear nothing more of Drascir in-game aside from going to Drascir Academy in the Ruins of Surmia.

Free Runner · Aug 26, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

There is an official story about it so it must be considered something. The only problem i have with it is that Lord Victo is as far as i know buried in the Tomb of the Primeval Kings as evidenced from the fact the Darkness have looted his stuff. So i'm not sure what his ghost would be doing jumping out from behind Tombstones all the way in Drascar (though he wasnt with the other Ghostly Primeval Kings during Wintersday....)

Konig Des Todes · Aug 26, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I honestly wonder if those "official stories" can be taken into thought anymore. They are rather old and it seems they have been forgotten. Same with Rotscale being from Ascalon *well, forgotten by ANet, not by lore fans*.

Free Runner · Aug 26, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Its not like they are outdated. They should of made it into the manuals imo. They dont contradict the storyline and serve to flesh out the areas of it that are not explored ingame (Mordakai's Death,Tombs of Drascar ect).

Konig Des Todes · Aug 26, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Well, technically ONE story did get into the manual. The one of Nolani.

Free Runner · Aug 27, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Well, technically ONE story did get into the manual. The one of Nolani.

I was more of talking about all of them.

In thinking a little more about Cantha there may of been one deep within Echovald Forest.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 27, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

when thinking of the Echovald Forest, if we look at explorable areas, the only place I can see as "dangerous" would be somewhere hidden in Urgoz's Warren. It's rather big and I don't think we cover each corner.

Of course, Urgoz was friendly with the humans as long as they did not harm the forest in Odran's lifetime, so the only way there would be one with it being "dangerous" is if Odran and Urgoz brokered a deal or something for keeping it safe. But that is unlikely.

Lakdav · Aug 28, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I thought Abaddon's ability to open portals from the Torment is tied to the persons he "touched" like varesh's constant summonings, Kormir's passage into Torment (near the monument of Palawa). And in torment the player (or Dunkoro, cant remember) says we are all touched by Abaddon thus getting into the realm of torment and hey, even the poor guy from Orr is there, (the one in the gate of torment outpost) although he has nothing to do with all the treachary of the visier. Odran might have been touched by him as well, unnoticed or in disguise. Since opening a portal is powered by a casters own will and power, the portals to the HoH could become corrupted later on.

Free Runner · Aug 28, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

No thats being "tainted". It doesnt allow him to open portals - it means that the person who is tainted as come into contact with Abaddons forces/magic and is booked for a one way ticket to the Realm of Torment after death. In some extreme cases (Kormir) living people are dragged in due to too much contact. Varesh is being aided by his forces when doing the rituals.

MannfredSetha · Nov 03, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

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Originally Posted by draxynnic

It's a correlation I've noticed myself...

My personal theory is that Odran, in his exploration of the Mists, breached the Realm of Torment just before he died - and that it was the reason he died (either because he got killed in the Realm of Torment and the explanation we have for his death is just historians guessing, or that the real reason the spirits in the Hall of Heroes tore him apart was for the crime of breaching Torment). Before the breach could be sealed (if it was at all), Terick, the Fortune Teller, and the Titan got out... and possibly others. After that, the three got to work towards bringing the walls of the prison down from without while Abaddon continued working on them from within, until it all climaxed with the three chapters.

i think this is actually really acurate, and would seem to fit, if Odran was walking around the realms of the gods he would stumble across torment and if he did indeed make a "breach" this could be true , as the good gods couldnt touch him, but abbadon could and maybe odran was killed in torment,and this breach let Terick and the Titans which influenced the minds of the leaders to corrupt the lands and bringing nightfall, this could possibly be backed up as we (as players) can be killed in torment,although this is a very thin line,but if he did breach torment and was killed, he would be sent to torment realm and not to the underworld. If this is the case.could Odran become a villian in Gw2, or appear as a tormented soul .

the plot thickens =/

Konig Des Todes · Nov 04, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

I would think, but hope against, that Odran's soul would have been used as food for Abaddon/Dhuum/Menzies's army if he got stuck in the Realm of Torment.

If not in the Realm of Torment, he probably placed himself in the Hall of Heroes, and could have easily been taken from the Hall of Heroes, or the Underworld, during the attacking on the places.

MannfredSetha · Nov 04, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

yeah ive guess so , but wouldn't be interesting if he did infact turn up as a torment creature like mallyx.

Gmr Leon · Nov 05, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

According to the Manuscripts Odran was passing back through the Rift when the souls finally managed to, quite literally, rip him to shreds.

Hyper Cutter · Nov 10, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

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Originally Posted by Free Runner

I think the spirits just managed to find a way around it. Spirits can harm mortals that have never been in the Realm of Torment in the present day.

On the other hand, blundering into the RoT is a good way to get yourself killed and draw Abaddon's attention to your portal system...